Comments on: The Enemy is the Liberals, Not the Religious Right http://neveryetmelted.com/2008/11/23/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/ The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted. -- D.H. Lawrence Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:43:59 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Dai Alanye http://neveryetmelted.com/2008/11/23/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/comment-page-1/#comment-133628 Dai Alanye Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:33:59 +0000 http://neveryetmelted.com/index.php/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/#comment-133628 I'm not a church-goer nor even much of a believer, but I'm plenty tired of these fantasists who see the Inquisition around every corner, and Cotton Mather in every bedroom closet. Who the devil are the "intolerant" in today's society? Is it the Christians rioting when school prayer is taken away, or the homosexuals when they lose at the ballot box? Is it Christians who get people fired for their beliefs, or who mob homosexual get-togethers? The answers are self-apparent.But some people evidently have consciences so tender they can't stand the idea that someone somewhere views their actions with disapproval. "Send for the thought police! I'm being criticized by someone. Pass a law to make everyone respect me!" As for the idea that the First Amendment bans public prayer, too bad the Founders weren't aware of this. Silly them, regardless of any personal beliefs they individually held, they expected to be prayed over in all their public acts. They would have been astounded at what a provision to prevent a tax-supported church has been twisted into during the last forty years. Abortion is neither more nor less of a religious issue than was slavery. In either case the question has primarily to do with what we consider human. In the end, it all has to do with how one feels about the arbitrary taking of innocent human life. I'm against that, myself, as any person with an ounce of empathy should be. I’m not a church-goer nor even much of a believer, but I’m plenty tired of these fantasists who see the Inquisition around every corner, and Cotton Mather in every bedroom closet.

Who the devil are the “intolerant” in today’s society? Is it the Christians rioting when school prayer is taken away, or the homosexuals when they lose at the ballot box? Is it Christians who get people fired for their beliefs, or who mob homosexual get-togethers?

The answers are self-apparent.But some people evidently have consciences so tender they can’t stand the idea that someone somewhere views their actions with disapproval. “Send for the thought police! I’m being criticized by someone. Pass a law to make everyone respect me!”

As for the idea that the First Amendment bans public prayer, too bad the Founders weren’t aware of this. Silly them, regardless of any personal beliefs they individually held, they expected to be prayed over in all their public acts. They would have been astounded at what a provision to prevent a tax-supported church has been twisted into during the last forty years.

Abortion is neither more nor less of a religious issue than was slavery. In either case the question has primarily to do with what we consider human.

In the end, it all has to do with how one feels about the arbitrary taking of innocent human life. I’m against that, myself, as any person with an ounce of empathy should be.

]]> By: ruralcounsel http://neveryetmelted.com/2008/11/23/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/comment-page-1/#comment-133459 ruralcounsel Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:47:07 +0000 http://neveryetmelted.com/index.php/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/#comment-133459 It isn't what the religious conservatives have been able to implement, but what a lot of them say they'd like to implement. I don't want the government telling me how to live my life, whether it be economically (through taxation to support socialism) or socially (through all whole host of intrusive initiatives involving prayer, abortion, sex, psuedo science ID). Usually the Republicans mess up the latter, and the Democrats mess up on the former. The Republicans failed at both, this last time around. I have no problem with prayer in schools, so long as it is quiet and unobtrusive. Just as I have no trouble with gay marriage, if it quiet and unobtrusive. Unfortunately, neither side's advocates are willing it to be quiet and unobtrusive ... it has to be "in your face". I'm a "live and let live" type; what you do behind your own doors is generally none of my business, so long as it doesn't touch me and mine. I believe some parts of ethics and morality are hard and fast rules, not subjective ... but that doesn't include making someone else follow all of your own religious beliefs, or flaunting yours in their faces. Common decency means we should try to keep our ideosyncrasies to ourselves. It isn't all religious conservatives, just like it isn't all gay couples, ... but Republicans need to become a lot more libertarian if they want to regain my support. And the louder, more vocal religious conservatives haven't shown themselves to be very libertarian ... too much moralistic loud public holier than thou behavior for my taste. They've adopted some of the same tactics as the wilder factions of the gay rights movement ... to their detriment. No one in their right mind can say that the religious basis for anti-abortion stance doesn't turn off a lot of middle of the road voters. A LOT. Right or wrong, it's the truth. I'm willing to say abortion is a form of murder, but it's still one choice that is so personal that it should be left to the individual to decide. Trying to choose what happens inside a woman's body oversteps the power of the state. In summary, I don't think the religious right is my enemy. (Yet, anyway.) But they sure are an imperfect ally that comes with a lot of downside, if the goal is to win elections. They probably feel the same way about me. But I have no more desire to live under a "born again" Christian religious dictatorship than I do an Islamic one. Religious zealots of any stripe make me nervous. It isn’t what the religious conservatives have been able to implement, but what a lot of them say they’d like to implement.

I don’t want the government telling me how to live my life, whether it be economically (through taxation to support socialism) or socially (through all whole host of intrusive initiatives involving prayer, abortion, sex, psuedo science ID). Usually the Republicans mess up the latter, and the Democrats mess up on the former. The Republicans failed at both, this last time around.

I have no problem with prayer in schools, so long as it is quiet and unobtrusive. Just as I have no trouble with gay marriage, if it quiet and unobtrusive. Unfortunately, neither side’s advocates are willing it to be quiet and unobtrusive … it has to be “in your face”. I’m a “live and let live” type; what you do behind your own doors is generally none of my business, so long as it doesn’t touch me and mine. I believe some parts of ethics and morality are hard and fast rules, not subjective … but that doesn’t include making someone else follow all of your own religious beliefs, or flaunting yours in their faces. Common decency means we should try to keep our ideosyncrasies to ourselves.

It isn’t all religious conservatives, just like it isn’t all gay couples, ... but Republicans need to become a lot more libertarian if they want to regain my support.

And the louder, more vocal religious conservatives haven’t shown themselves to be very libertarian … too much moralistic loud public holier than thou behavior for my taste. They’ve adopted some of the same tactics as the wilder factions of the gay rights movement … to their detriment.

No one in their right mind can say that the religious basis for anti-abortion stance doesn’t turn off a lot of middle of the road voters. A LOT. Right or wrong, it’s the truth. I’m willing to say abortion is a form of murder, but it’s still one choice that is so personal that it should be left to the individual to decide. Trying to choose what happens inside a woman’s body oversteps the power of the state.

In summary, I don’t think the religious right is my enemy. (Yet, anyway.) But they sure are an imperfect ally that comes with a lot of downside, if the goal is to win elections. They probably feel the same way about me. But I have no more desire to live under a “born again” Christian religious dictatorship than I do an Islamic one. Religious zealots of any stripe make me nervous.

]]> By: Louis http://neveryetmelted.com/2008/11/23/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/comment-page-1/#comment-133456 Louis Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:49:05 +0000 http://neveryetmelted.com/index.php/the-enemy-is-the-liberals-not-the-religious-right/#comment-133456 However, Mr. Robertson and Mr. Dobson do a pretty good job of attempting to ram their intolerant ideas down the throat of American citizens. There is a good reason for no prayer at schools - it's called the 1st amendment. Both of these gentlemen are also attempting to get "ID" or "Creation Science" into our schools. I certainly don't want my children to be subjected to pseudo-science. My vote goes to the progressive candidates, not ones who seem to miss the "Beaver Cleaver" days of the 1950s. We as a society do not need to back up. However, Mr. Robertson and Mr. Dobson do a pretty good job of attempting to ram their intolerant ideas down the throat of American citizens. There is a good reason for no prayer at schools – it’s called the 1st amendment. Both of these gentlemen are also attempting to get “ID” or “Creation Science” into our schools. I certainly don’t want my children to be subjected to pseudo-science. My vote goes to the progressive candidates, not ones who seem to miss the “Beaver Cleaver” days of the 1950s. We as a society do not need to back up.

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