12 Jun 2014

Arguing Immigration

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Funeral1905
Funeral of my grandmother’s brother, Joseph Skarnulis, killed in Tunnel Ridge Colliery, Mahanoy City, Pennsylvania, October 6, 1905. While crossing the breast to see if the manway was open, a fall of coal caught him, killing him instantly. My Aunt Rose (born 1901 — died 1988) is the little girl at the head of the coffin. My Aunt Ann (born 1900 — died 2000) is the little girl peeping over the coffin to her left. My grandmother, Martha, is the lady with the big hat cut in half by the break in the photo. My grandfather, George Zincavage, is the fellow with the droopy mustache to her right.

Commenter Chris writes:

1. We control our border. If we cannot do this what’s the point of being a nation

“Controlling our borders” is a slogan. In reality, the United States has thousands and thousands of miles of border passing through uninhabited, empty wilderness which any really determined person can cross. We can’t control those borders completely because the economic cost of doing so would be ridiculous and the benefit trivial. We can’t control our borders perfectly for the same reason nobody can conquer Afghanistan: It would be a tremendous waste of money, so no one is ever going to do it.

Some loons want to built a barbed wire fence all the way from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific. What a noxious symbol of statist irrationality and inhumanity that would be! We’d have our own Berlin Wall, but enormously longer, where we could shoot people for trying to come here in order to better their lives, instead of for trying to escape.

2. We DO NOT implement Amnesty. What point is having laws on the books if we’re going to abrogate them whenever we please?

The problem with this argument is that existing immigration rules embody no real principles, serve no specific purposes, and reflect no real national consensus. They represent only this particular edition of bureaucratic modification cobbled together during a period of national confusion and bitter political division.

Why should anybody give a rat’s rear end if somebody else violates a basically unprincipled, ill-considered, and fundamentally pointless regulation? Personally, I want to see my lawn mowed, my roof fixed, and the world’s work in general done as well and as economically as possible. I don’t really care about the genealogy or national origin of the guy cutting my grass or picking the apples I buy. If the steak I buy at the local Bistro is more affordable because the busboy and the guy washing the dishes snuck into the country to take those jobs, I think that’s just great, and I wish those Hispanic gentlemen the best.

3. Deport those illegals involved in Criminal activity.

I can go along with that one, though I’d personally prefer no laws on the books criminalizing victimless crimes.

4. Prosecute any company paying less than minimum wage to their employees (not sure that’s even an issue)

If I were on the Supreme Court, I’d write you a ruling explaining why government interference with voluntary contracts between one American or one business entity an another are unconstitutional and are economically deleterious to society. There is no such thing as a just price other than a price voluntarily agreed to between to parties. The imposition of fixed pricing by law represents the illegitimate intrusion of governmental force on behalf of one party to the injury of another and of the whole of the rest of society.

Do those 4 things there won’t be a need for amnesty, because in a generation everyone here illegally will be eligible for some form of legal immigration, either through anchor babies, marriage etc.

My wife immigrated here from Canada. We got caught in the 86 amnesty legalization surge and a process that took 3 months ended up taking 3 years because of the volume of illegals that gained legal status. That’s BS of the first order that!

This has nothing to do with race but with FAIRNESS. What you are advocating is unfair to those that cannot run, jump, or swim the border. Why should Hispanic illegals get any preferential treatment? Get in line if you want to come here…. everyone else had to.

This is the Michelle Malkin argument. The problem with it is that compliance with unprincipled and essentially useless regulations really benefits nobody. What we ought to want is what’s good for the country. What’s good for the country is the free flow of willing and affordable labor and all benefits of a continued population increase comprised of the most dedicated, energetic, and ambitious citizens of foreign lands. I want my lawn mowed. I want my fruit and vegetables picked. I want low-skill jobs done cheap. I don’t care if the guy doing them said “Simon says” or stood in the proper line or filled out the right forms.

Even my 9th great grandfather that came over from Wales in 1658.

He stood in line to get here in 1658? I do not understand what you mean.

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12 Feedbacks on "Arguing Immigration"

Matt

Take a breath and consider the other likely outcomes of this invasion. This is eerily similar to watching Charles Johnson going off the rails.



sound awake

Im removing this website from my favorites

I will never visit it again i am bored of it

I refuse to add to a websites hit counter that is obviously ran by a rino

Refuting every single point in a very slam dunk sort of way is so simple there is no sport in it at all

it is the very lowest hanging fruit and it is beneath me



David Zincavage

Matt,

Not really. I have not changed my position on immigration or anything else. I’m not going to start liking Obama or believing Global Warming. And I’m not gay.



Matt

Please consider, then, the enormous difference between the Ellis Island method of immigration and the mass importation of welfare recipients we are seeing today. You’ll find most illegal immigrants take no pride in assimilating into our culture. The end game is not cheap labor.



Matt

I had to chuckle at the gay thing. Sexual orientation is irrelevant in most aspects. LGF went off the rails beginning with a sustained unwarranted attack on believers.



Steve Morris

When you say that originally there were no laws regarding immigration to this country you leave out a crucial fact. That is, that there also was no welfare, no de facto free healthcare by just going to an emergency room since there were no real hospitals or emergency rooms. They didn’t have to worry about the disenfranchisement of everyone else in the country who didn’t belong to a particular political party such as those of us today that aren’t Democrats or will you argue next that the majority of the immigrants crossing our southern border won’t become Democrats!? They didn’t have to worry about a large percentage of the immigrants possibly joining violent gangs and causing all sorts of mayhem, at least not at the numbers we’re looking at today. The threat of cultural genocide was non-existent since the number of immigrants was easier to control due to their countries of origin being separated by the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, thereby allowing easier assimilation once they arrived here. Also, compared to today, past immigrants were much more quickly assimilated and actually wanted to assimilate, unlike current immigrants from south of the border who prefer to speak their native language in public spaces even whey they can speak English. Language is culture. I could go on but the strangest thing about your views on immigration is your complete inability to grasp the true nature and goal of the pro-amnesty movement. That is, to erase the borders of the United States completely, beginning with the southern border, in conjunction with the erasing of the Constitution. Why? Well, maybe we just don’t know yet.



neal

Being a viable asset is complicated. If one can be a sex worker, an organ donor, or just row for the rest is what is called economics devoid of any morality.

Migration can be wonderful, not so much when everyplace is more cruel than the other.

Of course, that is how Life works, too many cooks involved with that. I hear that pays well, extra kidneys, on demand, discounted.



GoneWithTheWind

There was a time that the U.S. needed immigration, we haven’t needed immigration for well over 50 years. Immigration harms the citizens but it provides some benefit to special interests and that’s why we opened up legal immigration in the 60’s nd why we tolorate illegal immigration. Our government doesn’t care what the citizens want.

Could we close the borders to illegal immigration and smuggling? Absolutely. Create a military unit exactliy like the Coast Guard to guard the border. Put a general in charge of the caliber of Curtis LeMay. Every person shows a passport and I would even favor a visa requirement to enter. Every truck, bus, wheelbarrow etc. gets inspected as completely as necessary to end smuggling. That would end illegal immigration. End H1B and other visa programs. Send all the current H1B visa workers home. The sole purpose of the H1B system is to provide companies with cheap educated labor that were willing to work many overtime hours without pay. The H1B program puts our own workers out of jobs.
Require that any college that accepts money or other aid from taxpayers must first matriculate Americans in preference to foriegn students. Only allow foriegn students once all Americans seeking college have been accepted.
End all forms of asylum, period.
Make the act of being in this country illegally a felony and enforce it. When illegals are caught finger print them, photograph them and check their identity and deport within 24 hours. Any cases where a slick lawyer or judge stops it the illegal gets charged with the felony and tried in federal court.
take the existing border patrol people and ICE concentrate on finding illegals in country. Anyone caught in country illegally can never enter the country again or apply for visa or citizenship.
Make it illegal to aid and abet an illegal alien. Fine any employer 1000 a day for each illegal they employ. Offer local communities a cash payment for each ilegal captured and turned over to ICE. Let our hundreds of thousands of local LEOs help us find and deport the illegals already here.
Illegal aliens kill 3000 a year, commit a major portion of rapes and child molestation, they commit a lot of violent and property crimes as well. They cost the government about $330 billion a year. It’s way past time we fix this mess.



LibertyorWhat!!??

Close the borders first.

The ones who already swam the Rio Grande can never vote unless they leave first. Vote only after obtaining naturalized citizen status like everyone else. Voting illegally=felony and deportation, no re-entry.

Same with entitlements.

Same with healthcare.

No citizenship or benefits for their offspring if they enter illegally.

Work visas after they submit to a criminal background check. Deport all who violate this immediately and fine their employers.

This is only about growing the Democrat party and going socialist. Nothing else.



Chris

“We can’t control those borders completely because the economic cost of doing so would be ridiculous and the benefit trivial. “——–Straw man anybody? Controlling the border doesn’t mean land mines, concertina wire, and OPs. It means taking those that come into custody (for whatever reason) and dumping them BACK across the border or back to their country of origin. That’s entirely fiscally possible… We’ve just stopped doing it.

“Why should anybody give a rat’s rear end if somebody else violates a basically unprincipled, ill-considered, and fundamentally pointless regulation? Personally, I want to see my lawn mowed, my roof fixed, and the world’s work in general done as well and as economically as possible.”——One of the things that used to make us different was the rule of law. Just because Obama has no respect for it, doesn’t mean that we should chuck it too. You’re right the rules might need revision, but that doesn’t mean that we should pretend they don’t exist. Essentially, you put your own economic good above all other considerations.

“voluntary contracts between one American or one business entity an another are unconstitutional and are economically deleterious to society.” —–I don’t disagree, but this is about enforcement of existing laws and what in effect encourages illegal immigration. Remove the incentives – welfare, medical care, jobs, and there isn’t a need for an armed force to patrol the border.

“compliance with unprincipled and essentially useless regulations really benefits nobody.”—–While the law sometimes can be an ass, it doesn’t justify ignoring it. Change it if you will but to ignore it makes us just another banana republic.

I grew up in a heavily hispanic area in SoCal, have worked and lived in Mexico (Queretaro), and I can tell you, you DO NOT GET IT. You sound like a typical Ivy leaguer your experience with hispanic culture is limited to the guy mowing your lawn. Mine is with the gangs, language, and culture. I have HUGE love for almost all things Mexican… but it stops at supporting their citizens illegal entry into the US.

This isn’t immigration, this is invasion. They don’t see themselves as coming here for jobs, they see themselves as taking back what they think is rightfully theirs. A hispanic buddy and I did some gang work in LA with kids, and I can still recall some 17 year old 3rd generation Mexican kid telling Gonzalez that he wasn’t a real Mexican because he couldn’t speak Spanish… WTF?

Again, I get that you think you know better here, but until you spend some time in the Southwest and actually experience this, you are like a teenager talking about true love. In theory what you are advocating sounds great… in theory, reality is the same as theory. Except it isn’t.

Stop making allegations of racism every time someone advocates No to amnesty. You’re wrong on this one.



Chris

And yes, my ancestors had to stand in line to get into the colony…actually they had to work as an indentured servant. There is no free lunch…. unless you’re a hispanic illegal.



SDD

Imagine the process of getting a driver’s license required you to got to the DMV multiple times and then wait 12 months to get a license approved (maybe less if you hired a good lawyer). Alternatively you could drive without a license and risk getting a ticket. But then the police make it very clear that if you get a ticket and don’t pay it, nothing will happen to you. Nobody will come to enforce the fine.

Do you think we would have lots of unlicensed drivers on the road?



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